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| Drawing by Anuradah Upadhyay after the performance "I Love You" |
"Hailing from a Chandigrah, Manmeet came to Delhi in
late 1990s to study fine arts and she graduated in painting from the Jamia
Millia Islamia. Though she was a trained in painting, perhaps, Manmeet is one
of those women artists who abandoned the trained completely with no regret
almost a decade back. She moved around in Delhi with friends and helped them in
documenting their works and independently did photography as she had the access
to a camera... Manmeet partnered with
Shantanu Lodh, initially in art and later in life and they together did a few
wonderful project..." [Johny M L],
See more: http://johnyml.blogspot.in/2011/11/i-dont-need-your-help-manmeet-devgun.html
In last couple of years I have been closely observing Manmeet's work, her process of work and also being a collaborator in some works. We made a small video film "Mama-Baby" on 'the every day life of Manmeet Devgun', we initiated a collaborative artists' intervention named as 'HouseMORPHING' and so on. Based on Manmeets piece of writing and her performance on it I designed a digital soundscape as a post performance work. She also collaborated in some of my works like a performance "Let's See What Happens" at Vadhera Art Gallery. Other then editing her performance art R. A. P. E. 2012, I have written some blogs about her performances. We keep conversing frequently and here is a documented conversation.
[Samudra Kajal Saikia, February and March, 2014]
- Exactly when and how you became interested in "Performance
Art"? Was it your interest in the form or some circumstance that eventually
made you a part of the practice?
It was between the time
period 1999-2002 through the magazine Art Forum at Lalit Kala library I became
familiar with this term-Performance Art and saw the works of Santiago Sierra,
Adrian Piper, Marina Abramovich.
It was quite intriguing
to come across this new medium-where there was no need for a gallery to display
your work or to ask a curator to see your work.
Personally I see a lot
of freedom in performance art and that is what interested me.
What eventually made me
a part of it was my close association with Shantanu Lodh and his friendship
with Inder Salim. Both of them were exploring this medium that time/performing
that time.
- This is quite obvious that you do not think much about the future
when you enter into a practice. But there might be some particular
incident or moment where you realize something which convey a different
meaning to you. or there might be a palpably smaller event or evidence
which might carry a greater significance to you? Is there any what you
would like to share?
A small incident I
would like to share with you here. In 2012, I did a performance- "I love
you" in Guwhati (it was part of Regional Art and Performnace Events) I was
endlessly saying- ‘I love you ‘ in different tones. At the end of the
performance when I came down stage, a girl held my hand and said-I wish I was
your girlfriend…
It was a very moving
experience for me. What touched her emotions? It was just repetition of three
words, a monotonous effort…what did she feel hearing/listening to those words…
- Now, on inspiration part, who are the people and what are the events that inspired you in your early phase? Inspiration may be taken in practice and also in conceptual part.
Marina Abramovich, really
inspired me, her use of her body as a tool was very inspiring.
Ana mendieta,Cindy
Sherman.
- At present would you like to name any whom you appreciate most in the practice?
I can’t pinpoint to
just one artist. Amongst the Indian artists, Nikhil Chopra and Neha Choksi –are
the two artists whose works I would love to see live.
- What are you working on at present?
Presently I am taking a
sabbatical as I need to concentrate on my daughter. But I’m continuing to write
poetry.
- We have seen you producing material art also, like embroidery,
photography and so on. You have a tendency of getting recognized as a
'total' artist. More particularly what would you prefer to be, a painter,
a performance artist or a multimedia artist?
I don’t know what is a
‘total’ artist, but yes I like to explore different mediums, though photography
and performance art give me immense pleasure.
- You also write. How writing plays a role in your performances?
Writing plays an important role in my art
practice-not just for my performances. Poetry accompanies my images at times,
at times I embroider what I write , at times I use it in my performances .
- Performance Art as art mostly understood as conceptual art. What are
the issues or matters that are significant elements for conceptual
grounding in your works?
It’s a very difficult
question to answer as I have not thought about my performative works in that
sense. The main issue or matter is to be able to just convey what
thoughts/emotions one wants to say.
- Tell us your most favorite work of your own. And share the experience in terms of what made it special for you?
My favorite performance
is –The Honour Cloud.(it was performed after the ‘Nirbhaya’ rape case)
It talks about the onus
of ‘family honour’ being carried by the female-daughter,wife,mother.
There was a 40 mtr long
turban cloth on which I wrote-you are the honour of your family-in
English,hindi and Punjabi. I then tied it and was became a Big turban. I then
asked the audience if they would like to carry this weight, but no one wanted
to do it, and one woman said-we know about carrying this weight, I don’t want
to wear it.
What made it special
for me was ,that for long this crisis was underlying within. There were (as
there still are) many incidents of molestation, rape in Delhi which bring out these
responses from the safe guardians of our culture and society, where the female
is always blamed for her appearance, being out late at night, etc. and the
‘Nirbhaya’ case crossed all limits. So this performance was done after that
incident(Jan’2013, ‘Nirbhaya’ case happened in Dec’12). It made me feel light, took
some weight off my chest. It was something I was feeling oppressed with and
just wanted to say it.
- How the body matters for you? And when a body is there 'physically
present', there is definitely a political affiliation. Do you prefer to go
for a distinct political positioning across your body of work?
I am not a theorist, so
I don’t know how to put a distinct political position across my work. But many
refer to it as a feminist body of work. For me ‘personal is political’ and most
of my works spring from my experiences of being a woman- daughter, wife, mother.
And that is where my politics lies.
I see ‘body’ as a
medium, tool, which can be used in one’s work –as a subject or not/as an object
or not.
- Is there any sort of disturbance felt when you shift the mode of working?
I think the shift of
mode of working is due to disturbance! When one medium dissatisfies me, I shift
to another. And writing calms me down and I go back to what I was doing
initially.
- How the space and time important for you? How they determine your
working pattern?
Are we talking about my
daily working pattern or how space and time help to determine about a
performative work? Please specify.
- Your most of the works are based in Delhi. Your life style is based
in Delhi. So it can be assumed that Delhi as a site and Delhi as an
environment might be a part of your becoming. How do you comment on that?
Undoubtedly. Had it not
been for Delhi, I would have be married to some rich/wealthy sardarji-maybe in
Canada !!! and would be having teenager kids by now!! Jamia gave me the
opportunity to do my masters and to be exposed to the art scene here. And of
course it has shaped my art practice. It was in Delhi for the first time I came
across installation art. That time Khoj was in its initial stages, there used
to be the Modinagar residencies. The Box Walla project was happening in
Gurgaon,there were artists from UK,Italy being invited for work presentation in
Jamia. It was quite energizing to see all these. Shantnau Lodh and Inder Salim
were making posters. It was very very influential/impressive for a girl from
Chandigarh Art college.
- Comment on the performance practices in Delhi.
Performance art in now
(like) a new medium which many are exploring. Even Mithu Sen has started
performing now. It is being promoted by artist collectives like Raqs Media
Collective. Workshps are being held, sponsored by agencies such as Pro
Helvetia-Gati. Ambedkar university is providing an MA in Performance Studies.
Recently KNMA, Saket did a one year long project, inviting performance artists
to perform in the museum premesis. It is definitely emerging as a new art form.
- What do you think, when the trends of performance art started in
Delhi and how?
Trends of performance
art in Delhi started around late 1990s,I believe. Anil Dayanad had performed
sometime around 1998 or earlier-please check the date with him.
During that time itself
Shantanu Lodh performed in the gallery space of his school(where he was
teaching). He and Inder Salim did a collaborative performance at a gallery in
CP-sorry I am forgetting the name. these are the people who I think started
doing performances,where ever they found an opportunity.
There was a
girl-Kriti-don’t remember her second name,she would invite artists to perform
at her terrace in a small flat in Lajpat Nagar-Anil dayanad,Inder Salim –all
performed over there. Shanatanu Lodh and I did a collaborative performance
there.
Khoj was providing
artists space to perform in their studios(as it still does).
This was the kind of
energy that time.
- Was there any significant historical moment that can be traced as an important role-player for the emergence of performance art in Delhi?
Maybe an art historian
can answer that better. Yet, I will try my best.
I think besides the
personal efforts of artists,performing at their own level,it is when
it(performance) happens in a platform-like a gallery or an alternative space
like Khoj, or a performance event,it gains visibility. And when there were art
talks post the performances,happening at Khoj,that a particular
performance/performance art, gets talked about,documented,it gains some weight.
I maight be wrong. But I think that Khoj was the only place where such art
practices were happening. That I would say is a major role player for the
emergence of performance art in Delhi-and the will of artists to do it when it
was not a regonised/accepted art form.
- Are you affiliated in any other performing genres like music,
theatre, dance etc.?
I wish I was affiliated with other performances genres,but
I am not.
- Performances have a tendency of incorporating elements other than
the 'performer's body' into the 'act'- like video, photography,
projections, music, soundscape and so on. in that way a performance is not
a singular mediumistic entity but a multimedia work. How do you use other
elements in your work?
I am just six/seven
performances old(if it can be stated like that!) (as I am not sure if I count
my collaborative performances with Shantanu Lodh as my works-due to personal
reasons and not) I use other elements if I find any relevance of it in my work.
So far I have used photographs, one sound piece. For two of my performaces I
have used my poems-if that can be counted as an element.
- You also make videos as well as photography is you another interest.
How do you see them? Are they extension of your performance or you want to
see them as distinctly different practice?
Well, my photographs
are very much performative in nature. My performances can be said an extension
of my photographic works. But I do see them as different practices, because a
photograph is a still image. It is a captured moment/emotion and it is frozen.
While a performance is a live act,it exists only for the time it is
performed,there are residues left behind and each time it gives a different
experience. Though I do not repeat my performances, it would be interesting to
actually perform the same performance again,in a different space and experience
the repetition.
- Though I mentioned Performance Art as a conceptual one, materiality
matters a lot here. The body is the first material. Then it is cited under
a certain time and space. Then comes other physical elements like costume
and other props. Have you thought about the materiality of the work? What
sort of props do you use frequently and why?
I try and use as
minimal props as possible as I work alone and being a single parent my child
becomes my priority,so I try and use things/material which I can handle just by
myself. So the maximum I try and explore in terms of material is my costume and
whatever technical support I get at the performing space-like projector or a
microphone. Maybe as my daughter grows up and is able to handle herself,I will
incorporate other materials. Also ,I have never received any production cost
for my performances(What passes through is the air-performed at KMNA,has been
one performance where I got paid a substantial amount; Situaion 01-performed at
JNU,I got a small amount where I got a minimal amount,which covered my
production cost). So cost also becomes a determining factor in terms of
acquiring paraphanelia.
- Stitched cloths or embroidery can be seen in your works. Say about
that.
Though the camera is my
constant companion/witness/lover, I am fond of knitting, stitching and
embroidery. I have done a one year diploma in Fashion Design,which refined my
stitching skills.
My mother is wonderful
in stitching, embroidering and knitting. Since childhood I have admired and
helped her in some of her projects-embroidering bedcovers, making curtains, knitting
sweaters and blankets. In fact we had embroidery and knitting as a subject in
school, which were one of my favourites.
Embroidery was actually
explored by my poetry. When I had my solo in 2011,I wanted to display my poems
but I wasn’t sure what would be the right medium for it, so I ended up
embroidering my poems(though only one was displayed). And that led to
embroidering images.
- While saying materiality of the work, it is different from other
mediums of work. You cannot preserve a performance or sale it out. What
you can do is create some memory. Now what is your take about that? How
much of a performance could be captured through photography or video
documentation?
Yes, a performance
cannot be preserved in its entirety ,it is only experienced for the time it is
performed.
The experience of a
performance cannot be captured but it needs to be documented-that is the only
way it will survive and that becomes the only evidence other than witness
account.
And believe me ,the
photographic documentation may still do justice to it but a video documentation
can even kill it-as I experienced it in Khoj-post ‘Hamam main him sab nangey
hain, per yeh hama hai kahan?(2006)
And interestingly I
mostly have photographic documentation!
- In reverse to the earlier question, can a photographic documentation
of a performance be considered a performance in itself?
No I don’t think a
photographic documentation can be considered a performance in itself.
I see Cindy Sherman’s
photographic works as performative works but they are not a documentation of a
performance-they are the final act.
- While preparing for a performance how
do you develop it? What comes first to your mind? Is it a concept or idea
that clicks in your mind or is it the situation that you imagine in a
formalistic way? Or do you think of the spectators first?
While preparing for a
performance what comes first in the mind is the concept/idea definitely. The
idea/concept is then worked upon,discussed with friends. I also do photo
sketches which are very helpful. Spectators are never a consideration. ‘What we
cannot see’ performed at Abadi Art Space, had only six spectators.
- Do the conceptual spectator matters for you in the formation of the
work? Do you ever think "for who am I doing this?" To be very
precise is there any incident where you have changed the mode of
performance for the present audience?
Spectator is there to
see my performance,absorb/negate, experience or carry a memory. How or what
they feel is not in my control or my intention. They are free to view it or
not. I have never changed the mode of performance for the present audience.
Also for me,the space,
the feel of the space is more relevant , if I change the mode of performance,it
could be after how I relate to the given space.
- Who are the patrons for your works?
Patronage as Wikipedia
says-is the support, encouragement, privilege or financial aid that an
organization or individual bestows to another. In the history of art, art
patronage refers to the support that kings, popes and the wealthy have provided
to artists such as musicians, painters, and sculptors.
Let us hope that 2014
becomes the year of patrons for my work!
- Survival is a big question
being a performance artist in India. How do you see the future?
In the present times
being a performance artist or otherwise is hard for survival. Though I am
hopeful of the future.
- There can be a question on How Indian is Indian performance art? Is there any requirement of searching a certain Indian-ness within the practice? At large comment on the Indian Performance Art Scenario.
Why does Indian
performance art have to be Indian? Or rather how can it be Indian? A
performance can have a regional/national context or relevance for that matter, concerning
an issue or incident.
- Do you interested in Collaborative performances? All the major
artists' groups had collapsed in India much ago. In today's practice most
efforts are emerged in singularities. What is your take on this?
Collaborations have
never deterred me. I have done collaborative performances in the past, been
part of performances of friends.
I think one of the
reasons for today's practices
emerging as singularities could be a
lack of agreement over an issue or concern. Maybe ego also plays a major role.
If the personalities of two individuals are in conflict, it does become
problematic.
Also artists are
habituated to making individual art works (T & T are one exception in the
Indian art scene who produce collaborative works) so probably collaboration
becomes an uncomfortable situation.
- Whenever we talk about "Performance Art", most of the
problems occur because of the lack of a singular definition. The practices
are so individualistic and conceptual that there is no 'canon', 'method'
or 'rules and regulations' in it. In that case how to explain it to a
young student artist? How to train a young artist who is interested in
Doing "Performance Art"?
Hard for me to say. For
a young student artist it is essential to see performances, to study about its
history-how performances started, the need for performance, question
performance artists. They should explore the medium on their own, make mistakes
and learn.
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